Yea, I know, another Green Mill Run thread.  I've probably started several GMR threads in the past too.  But after reading rivrdigr's post I laughed out loud about how true it is regarding where we will dig for shark teeth.  I would like to say my threshold would be raw sewage, but then again, if the teeth were pristine...hmmm.

Actually, I would like to ask if anyone collects "upstream" of the bridge that goes over the stream by the baseball park.  It's the bridge that has the paved walk/bike path on it, and is right behind those apartment/dorm buildings.  After reading about setting up "tooth traps" by BRM I think, I thought about the area right before this bridge.  It's a large pile of rocks, what better than to stop all those wonderful teeth/fossils from floating on down under the bridge.  So, the last time I was there (mid-March), I sifted the heck out of the gravel in front of those rocks.  All I found was a worn Cuvier.  So either someone else got the good stuff, or my theory/logic was wrong.  So, can someone tell me if this was a good place to sift, or should I have gone further upstream (It sure seems deeper up that way?).  I'm not greedy, I would like to find one decent GW when I go the 350 miles to get there that's all.

While I'm on the topic of GMR, I might as well ask also if anyone has ever found any teeth up that little feeder stream that connects to the main stream just before the large bridge.  I've walked up it and een sifted some of the gravel (not much there to begin with), but never found any teeth.  I've also inspected the walls that line that feeder stream because of all the shell material that is sticking out, but again, never saw anything but shells.

Does anyone out there know what the different layers/strata are that are present there?  I know there are a few because of the teeth, but have never seen the "layer(s)" that the actual fossils come out of.

Daryl.

Thanks BRM.  It sounds like the water might be quite deep up that way.  It also sounds like I don't dig very deep either.  I know when I check the area just below the foot bridge it usually feels like lots of sand, so I just keep going down stream until I see more of the gravel beds near the surface.  Maybe I'll try digging down in some of these sandy areas until I hit the bottom.

The last time I was there I saw a big snake.  It was downstream past the larger bridge.  When it slithered past me I'm not sure who was more scared, me or the snake.  I didn't have time to tell exactly what color it was (I'm partially color blind anyway), nor did I see if it had a diamond shaped head.  All I know is it went right across the stream and up into the bank, and I moved about 100 feet away.

Daryl.

Thanks BRM,  after this posting I'm googling copperheads!  Snakes in general don't scare me, so long as I know the area I'm in doesn't have any poisonous ones indigenous to that area.  Since I know you know the MD collecting sites real well, let me ask if you know what kind of snakes are along the shoreline(s) along the Potomac, specifically the Purse Park collecting site(s).  I've been collecting down there for about 10 years now and it wasn't until last summer when a buddy of mine came along and started talking about snakes, that we actually saw not one, but like 5! ... and one was hanging from a small tree right where we were about to cross under!  Two were in the water, and one looked like it might of had half a fish of some sort stuck in its mouth, and yet another was coiled up along the cliff wall.  I guess these are some sort of water snakes, but neither of us new what they were; kinda dark grey and about 3 to 5 ft long.  Any idea if these snakes are poisonous?

Also, just last week I was walking a stream near the horse race track,  stepping in the water when all of a sudden a snake about 3 ft long was swimming right at my feet.  I jumped and practically walked on water to get out if its way.  I didn't get a good enough look at it but it feaked me out so much that it took me twice as long to walk any further because I was constantly keeping a closer eye out for more of them.  What sucks is that I'm partially color blind, so these things being camouflaged really become almost invisible to me.  Last year I walked within two feet of one down on the Potomac as it rested on top of a root ball - my buddy couldn't believe I didn't see it, even after he told me where it was, it took for ever before I finally saw it.

In general, do you think these snakes can bite through your average pair of waders (rubber boot type)?

As for GMR, I'm not so sure now that I want to be in water more than a foot deep, at least with my hands sifting, after seeing that snake.  Gives me the heebie-jeebies.

thanks,
Daryl.

You don't have to be colorblind to look at a snake and not see it. They usually have muted colors that blend with the ground pretty well and they have millions of years of practice at it. If you are north of the Great Dismal Swamp along the N.C. and VA state line you don't have to worry about cottonmouths. There are several species of watersnakes in the VA and MD area, but they are not poisonous. One thing they are, is stinky. If you catch them they will crap an oily musk on you and you will not be able to wash it off with water alone. It will take a couple of washings with soap, alcohol, or bleach (as a last resort) to get the raunchy smell off of your skin. What you need to be aware of in your area is the copperhead. They are fairly common but you rarely see one because they usually take off as soon as they feel you coming. My experience is that copperheads are usually not very aggressive and prefer to be somewhere other than around a stomping-around biped. They seem to be more common along the Potomac River than most other places I collect. They usually max out at around three feet long, but I caught a copperhead in a gully at Popes Creek that was the biggest I had ever seen. It was over five feet long!!! For those of you that think a five foot long copperhead is impossible . . . you're half right. When I picked up the monster snake it broke into two pieces. I had not caught one snake but two!!! It was a case of coitus interruptus, they were mating. While I was catching the head-end snake the other snake's head was under a pile of leaves. As far as biting through waders, I think a large cottonmouth could penetrate the rubber but a small snake would not unless the waders were pretty thin like the reinforced nylon type. Big cottonmouths are very aggressive if you mess with them or corner them, and they are very powerful snakes with big fangs. I have run into several in North Carolina and the big ones seem to have no fear of me at all. There's no telling what you will find along the Potomac. Several years ago they killed a five foot long alligator close to Fort Washington, MD. It was no doubt let go by someone, but can you imagine running into one in Maryland?

I've always known the snakes where there because I would hear them slither through the tall sea grass or debris along the bank as I would walk by, which was why I always walked real close to the water's edge, even though it was harder to walk through the softer sand.  The only snake I ever saw away from the water was on the long path that you walk down through the woods to the river.  There was some sort of snake at least 4 ft long slithering away across the trail and heading down the hill/bank as I startled it.  Now, whenever I approach any sort of debris pile (and there are several), I toss some sand/rocks at it, and also carry some sort of stick to poke in front of me, but I also stop and try to scan it real well and determine my path of walking over it before I just go trapsing across it.  I learned the hard way last summer as I started to walk down a large pile of big bluish colored rocks, and had too much momentum to stop my 215 lb frame as I saw the largest snake (in the wild) in my life coiled up just a few feet below, right were I would have placed my next step.  I lept over it, yelled some sort of girlish scream, and even my duck bumps had duck bumps.

I looked up copperheads and am fairly certain that none of the snakes I saw along the river were copperheads.  I'm not so sure about the one I saw up on the trail in the woods though.

Bottom line is I'm much more aware of my surroundings now and am taking some additional steps to avoid getting bitten.